Cargo Trade Rumor Forum

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sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Thanks Jeem!

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Grading Trades – It’s human nature to want to grade trades right away – especially for “average” fans. Of course it’s been well documented by a number of RWOer regulars that it takes years for these things to really pan out. But there are a few things that we know – now; Tulo is 30. His performance is declining. His performance will continue to decline. He is under contract through 2020. He’s owed 98M. These things we KNOW about Tulo.… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

The very good and versatile Ben Zobrist to the Kansas City Royals.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

As DD has pointed out a couple of times, NoDo has been a bit of a prophet:

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_28549954/nolan-arenado-shocked-at-troy-tulowitzki-trade-believes-cargo-is-next

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago

Looks like twitter was wrong about Cargo to the Angels. Alleged deal pending for the Angels to acquire Daniel Murphy

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike Raysfan

I dunno if they were wrong, but the conversation went from Jay Bruce or CarGo to Shane Victorino and David Murphy – and it was all about the asking price. This is not Stoneman’s first rodeo and I’m sure CarGo was surfaced, and Bill laughed.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago
Reply to  DonnyDinger

Yep

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago

Sorry, I just had a conversation about the Mets and then posted Daniel Murphy here. My bad. David Murphy would be correct.

Colorado Thistle
Colorado Thistle
5 years ago

As Ag pointed out (a few days ago?) keeping Cargo may not be the worst thing in the world if you can’t get the return out of him you want. His contract isn’t terrible for his skill set. You don’t need to dump his salary for nothing in return.

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
5 years ago

Everyone says you can’t have too much starting pitching.

Seems to be a problem to me if you have 6 guys that all top out as #3 or 4 starters.

Is pitching about quantity or quality?

jaredean
Admin
jaredean
5 years ago

I could be just looking for something that’s not there, but the Bridich interview during the game yesterday had me thinking he was letting something slip a little bit. When he said that he was told before the game that nothing was going to happen he turned around and told Walt, “go ahead and play the guys”. I doubt he meant to Tulo and the Hawk when he said “the guys”. He probably was talking about more than one deal… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  jaredean

I think you’re correct.

He interviews well.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Another very nice article: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/rockies-choose-to-embrace-their-future-at-last/ The one thing I see in this article – and see frequently – is the penchant among (some) baseball evaluators to devalue relief pitchers (in this case, Miguel Castro). 10 years ago, I get this. But the game has evolved and relief pitcher (not just the Closers) have become more important. To me………having a talent that can become a bonafide Closer and simultaneously be cost controlled for years to come is extremely valuable. And…….when you… Read more »

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
5 years ago

I’m not going to type “keep Reyes” as a recommendation, however, he is the type of player when healthy that I think would be perfect for a Rockies team (of course if this was a competing ballclub). His speed and ability to hit the ball into gaps and run out triples really intrigues me as say the #2 hitter in the lineup. You get a little more flexibility to move DJ into the 6 or 7 hitter position. His speed… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

It’s funny that you mention Reyes’s speed (he has 15 SB this year – so he still has some wheels even at 32). It’s long (I mean very long – dating back to 1993) been my opinion that the Rockies have neglected speed. As you point out – we (for at least a very short period) have Blackmon, Reyes, and DJ in a lineup simultaneously. It’s does intrigue me a bit. The real question is – will WW just continue… Read more »

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago

Carp, that’s another one of my Things I Believe Despite Lack of Statistical Evidence: that the Rockies perform best when they have a real speed player or two in the lineup. In 2007, I railed against the playing time Willy Taveras was getting. Now I’ve changed my mind. A guy like that added a new dimension to this team. And for a short time a couple years later, so did Kaz Matsui. The difference between those guys and Reyes: Reyes… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Exactly.

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  jaredean

Thanks Jaredean. A couple of days ago, in the “Cueto Lives” thread – I proposed the following trade: “What if – the Mets offered Zach Wheeler and Brandon Nimmo for Tulo (and – VERY IMPORTANT – took Tulo’s contract). What would you say? A little background – Wheeler is a bit of a prodigy. Was in the Giants system and the Mets got him for Carlos Beltran in a deadline deal a few years back. He’s followed a fairly “classic”… Read more »

rockymountainhigh
Admin
rockymountainhigh
5 years ago

sdcarp was right on top of the Zack Wheeler – CarGo deal except the Brewers beat the Rox to Wheeler. Trade done: Wheeler to Brewers for Gomez.

But Matt Holliday went down with an injury tonight. Bridich give the Cards a call, CarGo for Micheal Wacha. 🙂

Bob K.
Bob K.
5 years ago

Cardinals said they aren’t giving up Wacha for anyone.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

No way the Mets were giving up Harvey/DaGrom/Syndergaard/Matz……but Wheeler is still pretty damn good. Cargo and Gomez are different players……..but you can make a solid argument for either one over the other. Good deal for the Brew Crew. Regarding the Cardinals/Wacha/Holliday/etc……the Cards could use a big bat for sure. RMH…..the Cards aren’t giving up Wacha, and he really doesn’t fit our “window” anyway. But…..14 of their top 30 prospects are pitchers. And no one, I mean no one, evaluates talent,… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

RMH – even though Zack Wheeler intrigues me, much like Michael Wacha – he doesnt really fit our contention window. If I recall correctly – he’s eligible for FA in 2019. I think Wacha’s final arbitration year is 2019. So if the Rox do things correctly,build the Farm, play 500 in 2018 and contend in 2019……..Wacha and Wheeler are likely lost after that. Now………..I’m always the first to say they could be traded for other players as they approach that… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago

Buck Martinez nearly gave me heart failure with the “Mets have traded for Carlos Go … mez” call. He knew Rox fans were listening.

IggyRox
IggyRox
5 years ago

Fresh off Twitter…. Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale Sandy Alderson, #Mets GM, to NY reporters on the Gomez trade: “The trade has not and will not happen.”

A different Carlos perhaps?

IggyRox
IggyRox
5 years ago
Reply to  IggyRox

Brewers allegedly weren’t comfortable with Wheeler’s medical, per Rosenthal.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  IggyRox

Good call guys!

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago
Reply to  IggyRox

What a disaster that was. Wow! I watched the Terry Collins press conference and Alderson meet the media. Flores can’t figure out why he is getting a standing ovation when he comes off the field and up to bat. Then he hears the rumors. The Brewers players are tweeting pics with Gomez saying goodbye. Collins is asking his coaches what the hec is going on and they say Flores has been traded. He can’t figure why he hasn’t been told.… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Wow – Mets/Brewers trade is NOT going down. Brewers must not like Wheeler’s medicals.

Cole Hamels to Tejas.

Dodgers/Braves/Marlins doing a ménage a trios.

IggyRox
IggyRox
5 years ago

The Gomez trade falling through may bite the Rox. If Wilmer was traded, who would be the Mets SS? Perhaps the new Rockies SS? Now that might not happen… unless we can interest the Brew Crew in a SS.

Man, if Thurs and Fri are anything like this week so far, who needs sleep?

IggyRox
IggyRox
5 years ago
Reply to  IggyRox

Sorry, I forgot Tejada.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  IggyRox

Apparently (if you believe the rumors – and you probably shouldnt), the Jays approached the Mets about Reyes recently and they wanted nothing to do with him. I found that slightly strange……given that he started as a Met. It’s probably more accurate to say they want nothing to do with the 48 M he’s owed.

FWIW – Flores can hit a little. The Brewers we’re going to try him at 3rd – which is smart. He’s defensively challenged at SS.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

sdcarp, not sure if you watched any of that debacle last night but during the reporting Reyes actually came up. The Mets heartburn may be the $48m but it is was alleged to be tied to his health and hamstring.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike Raysfan

Good info Mike.

In a former life I was a Track & Field Coach and was fortunate to have several elite sprinters. Those guys muscular physiology is wound “tight” and a hamstring injury to that type of athlete is devastating. Very slow healer (to that type athlete). Reyes’s best tool is speed. If (when) he loses that…….he becomes (and this has basically already happened) a very mortal, “average” player.

IggyRox
IggyRox
5 years ago

https://instagram.com/p/5vteE1trws/ (It’s safe, don’t worry guys)

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

So the Mets / Brewers debacle was because of…….drumroll…….the Mets medical concerns over Gomez’s hip, not Brewers concerns over Wheeler’s TJ. Very interesting. A lot transpired (or didn’t transpire) last night. Let’s cut to the chase and see how it impacts the Rox: 1. Mets still need an OF bat. We have a REALLY good idea what they’re willing to pay. 2. Cardinals – already in need of a bat – really need one now with what looks to be… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Couple more thoughts:

1. It’s possible the Mets were quick to deep six the Gomez deal because they know they can get another OF with similar impact (Cargo?) for similar price? Up the price Mr Bridich!
2. Cards setup man Jordan Walden was re-injured in his rehab game late last night. We could offer them a 2-fer……Cargo and Ax.

Pooter
Pooter
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

I would take Wheeler for Cargo.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Pooter

Pooter – I think there has to be a 2nd Prospect added. That Prospect is the key to me saying “yes” or “no.” I think the Mets will play the Jay Bruce card against the Rox. But Bruce is a swing and normally miss slugger. They already have Lucas Duda. One of those types is OK. Two is too many. I think Cargo is their man. I guarantee Monfart would love to have Brandon Nimmo. It’s a marketing bonanza. In… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Brutal write up on the Marlins “haul” from the Dodgers/Braves deal:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/marlins-flip-mat-latos-to-dodgers-for-1-prospect/

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Carp, if I’m reading the trade correctly, isn’t it essentially $14 million bucks in salary savings for the Marlins (Latos + Morse) for 2 months of Latos? That doesn’t sound bad to me at all … I don’t know what the fangraphs writer expects.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Well….I’ve always been sorta frivolous with Owner’s money! In the big scheme of things, I don’t see 14M as that much (granted – it’s not my money). It seems to me, there was so much going on between the Braves and Dodgers that the Marlins could have extracted at least one bonafide Prospect out of the deal. But hey…..the Marlins GM is now the Manager, so Loria himself may have done that deal. Sometimes he makes Monfart look like a… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Brandon Moss to StL for top LHSP Rob Kaminsky. Simple one-for-one swap on the surface. This is a Matt Adams “replacement” trade in my opinion. Might not impact their interest in Cargo (if they have interest).

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

FWIW – the next highest rated LHSP in the Cards organization is Fort Collins Rocky Mountain HS Alum Marco Gonzalez. Not only that…..his Dad is a pitching coach in the Rox organization.

Now I’ll shock you……I don’t really like him. Has all the markings of a soft-tossing #4 soft tossing lefty SP.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago

Agreed Carp, especially with the speculation circulating about how long Holliday will be out. I just don’t see Moss being a long term every day LF guy.

Pooter
Pooter
5 years ago

Tulo had a pretty good 1st game for the Jays…. I miss him already.

Colorado Thistle
Colorado Thistle
5 years ago
Reply to  Pooter

The Jays just got David Price to go with Tulo. Hope they make a great run. I can’t ever say I will “miss” Tulo, who had the personality of a mortician, but I will miss watching him play defense.

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
5 years ago

Tulo’s probably going to see a personal resurgence he would never have had in Colorado. I think he felt the weight of this franchise since the departure of Holliday and he was never ready for it. The Toronto management is going to look like geniuses if they continue to keep Tulo out of the 3 and 4 pressure spots in the line up. I’ve said it for years. Tulo can’t handle the pressure of being the #1 guy on a… Read more »

rockymountainhigh
Admin
rockymountainhigh
5 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

He’s gonna feel like he’s playing behind Rockies’ aces everyday now that he’s behind the Toronto rotation starting with David Price.

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago

Two things are going to force the Yankees into action;

1. The Blue Jays
2. Michael Pineda scratched from today’s start – elbow.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago

Toronto must want to win bad this year. Between Tulo and Price they have given up a bunch of prospects. I think I may have to go home the beginning of Oct. and catch the Jays trip the the Trop.

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago

More tidbits to consider with Cardinals:

1. In process of signing 1 billion (that’s right – billion with a “B”) TV contract.
2. Matt Holliday to DL again. This injury will plague him the rest of this season.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago

Well the Cargo rumors sure have come to a screeching halt. Last stuff flying yesterday was the Orioles and then … never mind. Maybe the one rumor about the Rockies hanging on to him until the winter meetings is true.

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago

Somehow all this wheeling and dealing is now making me sad. Sad as in “I wish that just once in the life of a Rockies can we could be the Blue Jays at the trading deadline.” Imagine if we were at .500, 3 games out of a wildcard in late July. Would we pick up a Tulo and a Price for the stretch run? Are you kidding me? Of course not. The biggest deadline deal we’ve ever made is …… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Ag – the Tulo deal was one (initial) small step. We have to change an institutional mindset. We need to deal Cargo. We need to deal Blackmon. We need to deal Reyes. THEN – we have to come to grips with the fact that some of the players received in these deals will need to be flipped to meet more precise needs as (if) we grow closer to contention. AND……if we do all this and clear payroll…….we have to come… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago

Listening to the Mets broadcast today with Gary and Ron railing on the flaws of social media bringing Wilmer Flores to tears. Jared, you weren’t imagining with your AtBat notification. The Mets actually had the deal posted on their website briefly. (“Clear the web cache, CLEAR THE WEB CACHE!”) I also realized something watching Ken Rosenthal the last few days, and his dead silence on a comment about Paul Cohen. Many of Rosenthal’s “sources” are agents, who are integral to… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  DonnyDinger

What interests me is that the Rockies have been irrelevant for so long (have the ever really been relevant?) that the national guys just don’t pay attention to our handful of beat writers. It’s rare that you hear Rockies rumors. It’s rare that you hear Twins rumors. It’s rare that you hear Pirates rumors. It’s rare that you hear Royals rumors (until they go to the World Series). I don’t buy into the theory that these Front Offices are tight…..I… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Damn it…….no sooner do I write this a press “submit” and a Pirate’s rumor appears on MLBTradeRumors.

It’s not hockey already!

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Blamton (spelling intentional).

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago

Blue Jays haul: Daniel Norris, same age as Hoffman, rated higher. Sickels had Norris #1 on his Jays prospect list with a solid A grade. Hoffman was 5 with a TJ-reduced B grade. Castro 8 (B-, borderline B), Labourt 12 (C+, borderline B-), Boyd 16 (C+). I kind of like what the Tigers got for a 2-month rental of Price better than what we got for 5 years of Tulo! Tells me that Tulo didn’t have that many takers out… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Tells me there were 98M (really 50M reasons) reasons not to give as much for Tulo.

It’s all about $$$$. Price is a one night stand. Cheap in the big scheme of things. (sorry for the seedy analogy).

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Did Sickels include a full psychological profile of Norris? He’s a bigger head case than Trevor Bauer. I am very glad Bridich didn’t go there.

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  DonnyDinger

Is he a bigger head case than Bode Miller?

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

yes

Bill
Bill
5 years ago

A couple of thoughts – 1) I think if we waited until Thursday or even Friday might have gotten more for Tulo. I’m guessing Rockies pulled the trigger on Monday night that they were afraid he would get hurt and scuttle the whole deal. I understand that we were only going to get prospects and a player with issues. But maybe another prospect or two. Some fans, not RWO fans, thing we should have gotten Sandy Koulfax in his prime.… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Good memory. Saberhagen was the last hour before deadline.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Blamton Smampton!

Rox and Orioles talking Cargo.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

I haven’t been on twitter tonight but is that current? That stuff was circulating yesterday. My earlier post.

“Well the Cargo rumors sure have come to a screeching halt. Last stuff flying yesterday was the Orioles and then … never mind. Maybe the one rumor about the Rockies hanging on to him until the winter meetings is true”

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
5 years ago

A quick check and I see Jay Bruce to Mets. Mike Leake to the Giants. Aroldis Chapman to the Dbags. None of these confirmed as done deals. And the older confirmed news about the Astros and Brewers trade that has been well covered on tv.

I don’t see anything about Gonzalez from the mainstream sources.

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