Is Weiss too Passive? Aggressive? Or…What?

So, last night in the middle of the complete meltdown of a 9th inning, someone (Sorry,they were using a guest log-in) listed among the complaint of the game, and there are many, that Walt was being too passive. Now, a lot of us have complained a lot about Walt, and while I am one who thinks Walt will be a good manager eventually, he follows “the Book” with regards to relief pitchers too much, for example. Walt is still in his 2nd year managing, and I would argue he might be too much a player’s manager – allowing vets to decide when they will play (CarGo) for example. But I have to say, he actually managed the game Wednesday night as aggressive as he has all year. Yes, with both CarGo and Tulo sitting (I have noticed a lot of teams resting star players with injury history or over 30 on the game before a day off to try and get a long rest for players, so I get rested Tulo…but it made a weak lineup) he had to be aggressive.  He pulled Lyles after 5 because Lyles didn’t have it and was at 100 pitches. His choices of relievers last night was solid. He took the chance with the bases-loaded and 0-out to go pull Culberson – and go with CarGo to take advantage of left-on-right.  Then used Tulo. And then in the 9th he went to Boone with two lefties coming up – just as we all wanted him to do, even with Hawkins his closer out there (who only gave up the one hit to Revere).

So, while I have complaints about Weiss,  was he too passive? Or too aggressive? The guest poster was saying allowing players to hit away with 2-0 and 3-0 counts was part of the passive action.  I have heard it a lot lately on interviews with managers, they do not put the stop on 3-0 counts until late in the game, trusting big league hitters to be smart enough to do the right thing. Its part of what you get with hiring recent players to manage – they trust veteran players to be smart and do their job. So, I can see where not putting a hard take on DJ when he had a 3-0 count earlier in the game (and I yelled loud when DJ ground-out on a 3-0 count) was passive. But the rest of the game was managed very aggressive – maybe too much. And really, while the stats show that 2-0 and 3-0 are great hitters counts…I would assume DJ is smart enough to take there…he wasn’t but not a complaint of Walt for me.

But let’s have it out – is Walt too passive? Too aggressive? Or was Walt not the one who left 15 men on and gave up a single and a homer to left-handed hitters (in other words, players have to do their jobs and its too easy to blame the manager in games like this)?

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Bill
Bill
6 years ago

I’m not sure if I’d label Weiss too passive or too aggressive but I think the worst part of his game is he has not learned to use his bullpen. Now I understand he can only use what he has. But he seems to put the wrong guy in at wrong time too many times. I liked what he did when he pinch hit with Cargo and Tulo but there was a reason why they weren’t playing in the first… Read more »

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
6 years ago

Actually, that guest poster was me. I wasn’t really complaining about take signs on 2-0 or 3-0 counts. Way too analytical for me. My simple complaint is in close ball games, when you have runners on base with no outs and your team is slumping in the worst way in those situations, you don’t continually do the same thing and let them hit per usual and continue to bang your head on the wall, leading to nights with 0-12 with… Read more »

rockymountainhigh
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rockymountainhigh
6 years ago

Yes Prog, in the game chat two games ago I was calling for small ball taking your suggestions you mentioned in a post about three days ago. Called for a lot of hit n runs or steals. Anything to take the double play away. If it feels like it’s automatic double play, then bunt! I prefer suicide bunt that fails than a comebacker to the pitcher for a 1-2-3 DP. Rox had a couple of DPs Tuesday night that were… Read more »

Colorado Thistle
Colorado Thistle
6 years ago

We’ll see how good a manager he is after last night. This team appears to be on the precipice. Are we about to fall to our normal 5 to 8 games below .500? Or can we get back to the type of play that kept us in contention? So far they’ve handled adversity pretty well, but the first 6 of this road trip have been really disappointing, culminating in last night’s collapse. The game last night was given to us,… Read more »

sabrchip
sabrchip
6 years ago

I don’t know if I can fault Weiss for saving his two best (historically speaking) hitters for an ideal situation. I can show concern when he pitches to a batter that has, in the past and in a short sampling, owned his pitcher. After all, he took Hawkins out instead of facing Utley who owns LH. Still, managers shouldn’t be faulted for the failure of his players to produce. The players deserve all the criticism falling down around their ears.… Read more »

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
6 years ago
Reply to  sabrchip

What’s a manager for? Its easy to tell hitters to go up and swing it and then blame them when they fail. I can get paid to do THAT.

I figure a manager is supposed to decide when that hasn’t worked for the past 3 weeks, try something else and the manager figures out what “else” is.

sdcarp
sdcarp
6 years ago

I have very few issues with Weiss. I liked the Boone Logan move last night. He went straight sabermetrics on that one. I was a bit miffed that he hasn’t played LeMahieu at 3rd, but I think his decision making is hamstrung by Rutledge’s way subpar defense. I also think Tulo is nursing an injury (we know Cargo is), so I don’t think he had much option in playing (or not playing) those guys. He’s got to steer the ship… Read more »

Doc
Doc
6 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Interesting about gut feeling vs. sabermetrics. WW said he’d already decided to go with Logan if it got to the left handed batters–this would make sense if you were thinking the Phils would have been getting walks or hits to get that deep into their order, but two errors—come on. What did sabermetrics say about bringing in some guy cold from the bullpen to close out a game tettering on the edge verses keeping a guy who’s calming the rest… Read more »

Agbayani
Agbayani
6 years ago

I thought Walt managed perfectly last night. Bases loaded, no outs, who do you want up? 1. Tulo. 2. Cargo. Not his fault that both of them (particularly Cargo) failed. Bottom of the 9th, tying run on, 2 lefties due up, who do you want to face them? Why, how about your prized left reliever specialist, Logan? Not Walt’s fault that O’Dowd miscast Logan as a lefty specialist. (By the way, Utley has almost no lefty/righty split over his career.… Read more »

Agbayani
Agbayani
6 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Allow me to add: having watched Boone give up walk-off HRs to 2 lefties in the last couple weeks —

Outman has given up 5 HRs to lefties over his entire career (100 innings); Logan has given up 3 HRs to lefties in 6 innings this year.

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
6 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

I agree – you can’t bring Brothers in because he’s been so wild. So Logan was the lesser of 2 evils.

It’s interesting – with a crystal ball Frick and Frack could have seen the maturation of Blackmon and Dickerson and not done the Outman>Stubbs deal (and hence the Logan signing). Of course, one could easily argue the “crystal ball” was the last 2 months of last season.

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