LET’S TALK ALTITUDE

Saw these articles mentioned in the DP this morning. Lengthy but some food for thought. Maybe they should just use some common sense and play ball. What do you think?

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/38390/qa-rockies-gm-bill-geivett-part-1

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/38544/qa-rockies-gm-bill-geivett-part-2

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sdcarp
sdcarp
8 years ago

Being an engineering/physics geek, the whole altitude thing has quickly become my pet peave – I’ll post more thoughts on it later. However, I see where Mark Wiley is interviewing for organizational pitching guru today. I like this idea. I don’t know enough about Wiley to have an opinion regarding if he’s the right guy. But I think we should have that position – and it would make sense to have the position filled prior to pulling the trigger on… Read more »

Bob K.
Bob K.
8 years ago

Woody Paige pretty much summed up my thoughts on the whole ownership/management thing.

http://tinyurl.com/9zm6ulb

Rocky Mountain High
Rocky Mountain High
8 years ago
Reply to  Bob K.

I was just about to mention this article from the Denver Post. It revealed one eye opener; the players were told not to read the columns by Mark Kizla and Woody Paige after a players only meeting mid-season. So the can of worms have been opened in front of the Montforts. Also the Montforts offer free food and snacks to the season ticket renewals. Sorry, you have the priorities all backwards. The objective is to win games and bring in… Read more »

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago

Next up: free Advil, Midol and for anyone with a valid card, marijuana.

Cisco Kid
Cisco Kid
8 years ago

If that was a players only meeting, who told who what?

Bob K.
Bob K.
8 years ago
Reply to  Cisco Kid

Excerpt from the article:

“Dan O’Dowd held a closed-door clubhouse meeting last season and said, according to one person who was present, the players should not read The Denver Post, and that columnists Mark Kiszla and Woody Paige told lies.”

Bat Cat
Bat Cat
8 years ago
Reply to  Bob K.

Funny thing is, Renck is the one who tells “lies.” He said many times that Ubaldo wasn’t upset with Tulo’s and CarGo’s big contracts; that Arenado would be up June 2012; and that Tulo would be back before the end of the season (for a few examples). I wouldn’t call those lies, I just think Renck doesn’t know as much as he thinks he does. The other guys are opinionated, and when DOD disagrees with the opinion, that doesn’t make… Read more »

Agbayani
Agbayani
8 years ago

sdcarp, looking forward to your thoughts on Altitude Ball. The Geivett-Jonah Keri interviews are interesting only because they’re so incredibly boring. It’s an exercise in modern day Kremlinology trying to figure out who’s in power and who’s on his way out in Rockiesland. To me the most interesting exchange was this: Keri: so the 4-man rotation was kind of your baby? Geivett: No. That came in on June 18 (and Geivett wasn’t given his role int August). So Geivett disavows… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
8 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

OK – here’s my altitude rant: First and foremost, there’s an awesome book called the “the Physics of Baseball” by Robert Adair. It’s a must read for the science-minded baseball fan. Much of this comes from that book. Secondly, there’s my 6+ years of undergrad + grad school at a major engineering school that sucked up most of my brain space. So here’s the very short version: 1. Air is less “dense” as altitude increases. Adair says a ball will… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
8 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Edit – “warning track homeruns” should be “warning track outs.”

jeem
jeem
8 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Excellent!

Phil
Phil
8 years ago

I’m not saying whether or not DOD was right or wrong in saying what he did, but I think Woody wrote the column because he was angry that someone actually had the audicity to tell people not to read his column. LOL

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
8 years ago

So Giambi is interviewing for the manager’s job! Could be the yes man they are looking for.

Pooter
Pooter
8 years ago

I want Giambi or Ausmus. I feel Jim Tracy = Runnells.

Agbayani
Agbayani
8 years ago

sdcarp, thanks! Good reading. Actually, one of the best summaries of the effects of altitude on baseball. One other thing to keep in mind: Coors has a big outfield, made “bigger” by outfielders playing deeper to compensate for that greater flyball distance. That means more singles dumped in front of outfielders. As for the effects of altitude, great points. I’ve never seen any reliable study that would support the notion that pitchers break down faster or recover slower because of… Read more »

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago

Agree that Runnells represents ZERO change from Jim Tracy. Not sure what the heck would be the motivation to hiring Giambi. We’d be a laughing stock FOREVER. Seriously…I mean it could go down as a franchise killing move. Think about it. Every subsequent managerial candidate for the next 20 years will remember how the franchise offered a position to someone with so little experience it was laughable. You’ll either get people applying for the position figuring that the base level… Read more »

JulieG
JulieG
8 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

Who in their right mind that had managerial experience that was current would want to come here to be the Assistant Manager?

Colorado Thistle
Colorado Thistle
8 years ago
Reply to  JulieG

Assistant Manager to the Assistant GM. I think I see a pattern here. When the train goes completely off the rails, it can’t be your fault if you’re only an Assistant.

OrangeRocks
OrangeRocks
8 years ago

Prog, on one hand I completely agree with you that Giambi has no business managing a MLB team until he has some coaching and/or management experience. But on the other hand no one that is worth a darn will take this management job with the restrictions that are gonna be attached. Pathetic just pathetic excuse for a MLB team and the ownership group is directly responsible for this mess!

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
8 years ago

I wonder if Mike Matheny would agree with you guys? Oh wait. He probably is too busy with the playoffs to read about no previous managerial skills. :>)

sdcarp
sdcarp
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike Raysfan

Robin Ventura wasn’t too shabby either!

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike Raysfan

Inheriting the Rockies is completely like inheriting a World Series Champion, hmm?

OrangeRocks
OrangeRocks
8 years ago

Really I do like Giambi, well maybe not as a player on the Rockies 25 man roster now. Having said that what attributes does he have that would lead you to believe he would really make a good MLB manager? And no I don’t think the thong thing qualifies as a managerial attribute.

Yes I know all about Matheny and Ventura, however somehow I don’t think those guys are anyway similar to Giambi – just sayin.

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago
Reply to  OrangeRocks

I heard an interview between D-Mac, Alfred Williams and Carney Lansford back a season or so ago where they were asking him about Giambi’s role on the team and Lansford said that there were times in which Giambi “declined” to go up and pinch hit. Rightfully so the interviewers pressed for an answer what did that mean and Lansford seemed perplexed or noncommittal to an answer. I don’t want a guy who recently declined to perform his job duties (even… Read more »

Agbayani
Agbayani
8 years ago

Prog, I heard that interview. I don’t think Lansford was trying to rip Giambi or anything. It was kind of matter of fact, like sometimes the coaching staff would suggest getting him an at bat – say late innings in a blowout game – and Giambi would just say thanks, but I don’t really need that at bat. I think the radio guys made way too much of it. But I still think he’d be a really bad choice as… Read more »

jeem
jeem
8 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

I think you’re on to something, Ag: Geivett = GM. O’Dowd = GM Emeritus.

Bill
Bill
8 years ago

I’ve been traveling for almost two weeks and haven’t had the chance to weigh in with my two cents as much as I like. At least most evenings I’ve been able to watch baseball but tonight one game has been postponed and the other may be delayed past my bedtime. As an aside it’s tough to be a sports fan in the eastern time zone. Saturday night the Yankee-Tigers game ended at 1 AM Sunday AM (although the local papers… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
8 years ago
Reply to  Bill

I agree. So when I look at the “realistic” candidates (the in house group and the handful that have been mentioned from out-of-house) and realize we need a miracle I’m beginning to think Giambi is the only one that might (with some luck) transcend the dufus brothers and gain some legit power within the organization. Think about this scenario: Giambi is hired. Through some act of the baseball gods the Rox manage go 35-25 through April and May. Giambi would… Read more »

Bat Cat
Bat Cat
8 years ago

Surely the Rockies will not acquire A-Rod. If he can’t hit at sea level, how could he hit at altitude? And what about the all-important clubhouse culture?

http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspecial/ci_21802044/rods-view-from-bench-suggests-days-yankee-are

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago

Uhh…in what world would the Rox be a good fit? That guy is smoking something good. In order for ARod to come here the Yanks would have to eat BIG salary. For the Yanks to eat big salary they require a good return in prospects. What prospects would the Rockies have to offer? Why would the Rockies want to have ARod when they can’t compete? Just doesn’t make sense in any way. The Marlins will be ARods destination and then… Read more »

Pooter
Pooter
8 years ago

Get A-Rod, and Hamilton, then let Helton have a walk into the sunset year. CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!

CF — Cargo
SS — Tulo
3B — ARod
RF — Hamilton
LF — Cuddyer
C — Baby Bull
2B— Rutledge
1B — Helton

HOW SWEET IS THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pooter
Pooter
8 years ago

I would deal the Yankees Aranado for A-Rod. Give them a stud and have them eat his salary.

Cisco Kid
Cisco Kid
8 years ago

Has anyone heard any details about the manager of Asheville (Mikulik) being fired? Didn’t Asheville just have one of the greatest seasons of any minor league team in the history of the Rox organization? Didn’t they win the SAL championship? I guess the best way to get yourself fired in this organization is to show some degree of competency. I’d be interested to hear what exactly went down with this firing. I’m sure that our crack team of investigative reporters… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
8 years ago
Reply to  Cisco Kid

Hadn’t heard this. I’m originally from Asheville. Have been to many Tourists’s games. That dude has been the Manager there forever (I’m thinking something like a dozen years). He’s legendary for his blow-ups at umpires. I’m thinking maybe he had kids/family in the area for awhile, and wanted to stay there. But he really should be managing at a higher level.

Bob K.
Bob K.
8 years ago
Reply to  Cisco Kid

According to this article the Rockies gave no reason for his dismissal.

http://tinyurl.com/94rnn9m

Agbayani
Agbayani
8 years ago

And isn’t Mikulik Ian Stewart’s father in law? Maybe the Cubs want him to manage Ian for their Low-A ball team. Seriously, seemed like he was a colorful local fixture in Asheville, so there must be some backstory here.

Ike
Ike
8 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Absent a reasonable explanation, it is left up to us to speculate as to why the Rockies would dismiss him. The only thing I can figure is that this is an extension of the petty vindictiveness that has come to light especially over the past few months. Ian Stewart, via twitter, was a bit forthcoming regarding his opinion of the Rockies front office this year. Gotta believe given the light of the Rockies pettiness, that this has something to do… Read more »

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
8 years ago

Wow … I sure am glad the Rockies dumped Scutaro. Man does he suck … NOT

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike Raysfan

In all seriousness, you’d rather have Scutaro than Rutledge?

Bob in WV
Bob in WV
8 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

Truthfully, I’m a bit worried that the Rutledge we saw up front was a mirage. He sure came back down to earth in a hurry. We’ve seen plenty of guys give us hope and then never quite continue with the level of play we expected or needed. I sure hope I’m wrong, as I really enjoyed watching him play and contribute with a lot of clutch hits. However, I’m still a bit anxious about him.

Colorado Thistle
Colorado Thistle
8 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

I’d rather have management that can figure it out.

Miketober
Miketober
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike Raysfan

Scutaro is hitting .458 in the postseason.
A curse on the Rockies for helping out the Giants like that! It’s bad enough they dumped him (I don’t recall the price of beer going down with the salary dump), but helping out a division foe in the process?

Bob K.
Bob K.
8 years ago
Reply to  Miketober

Adding insult to injury, don’t forget they had to pay the Giants $1 million to take him.

Bill
Bill
8 years ago

Mark Wiley was, finally, hired as Pitching Coordinator today. Personally of all the names mentioned for manager I would like to see Tim Wallach hired. He played in Denver, he knows altitude. However I’m guessing that the interviews are testing how many times the interviewee can say, “Yes, Sir” and how sincere he sounds.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
8 years ago
Reply to  Bill

yep got to agree

sdcarp
sdcarp
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike Raysfan

I’ll confess to not knowing much about Wiley, but I definitely like the concept of having an organizational pitching coach. Wiley has a history with Bob McClure, so that might be our next pitching coach (not a bad thing).

Honestly, it sort of smells like this thing is being setup for Giambi.

Julian
Julian
8 years ago

Scutaro is certainly performing well in the playoffs. He has been a huge help for the Giants. It seems that every year they pull the right strings to bring in veteran players who can help them. I wish DOD was that good. Having said that, although we didn’t get much for Scutaro, it made sense to trade him and create an opportunity for Ruttledge and LeMahieu to play and get experience. One of them should be the starting second baseman… Read more »

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Too bad the Rockies couldn’t be the team that knew when to nab the right player at the right time as opposed to always bringing in the WRONG player at the WRONG time.

Trying to remember what moves in 2009 near the deadline the Rockies made that might have helped them go from wild card to division winner to a team that might move past the opening round that would be comparable…yeah, thats a rhetorical question.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
8 years ago

It’s only the wrong player at the wrong time if they don’t perform as a team. They didn’t.

Would I rather have Scutaro over Rutldege Prog? Seriously? I HOPE the answer turns out to be no. That remains to be seen.

Congratulations to Marco Scutaro for winning the MVP. He deserved it.

Hec of a way for the Rockies to get coverage during the playoffs.

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago

He was the wrong player because he played the wrong position. Personally, I didn’t get bringing in an aging second baseman to start over any of our myriad of other 2Bs when the front office itself knew this was a rebuilding year. It was a waste of time and money for all. Even THIS Marco Scutaro wasn’t going to lead the team anywhere and he would be gone by the end of the 2012 anyway. IMO, be bitter about the… Read more »

OrangeRocks
OrangeRocks
8 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

My take on Scutaro was that he was just not the MFL Tracy’s type of ballplayer, as MFL wanted every player in the everyday lineup to be a .260 hitter with 18 dingers and that’s not Scutaro’s game. If you look closely at the Scutaro stats he performed just about at his career averages and he played decently in the field. If he had been brought into a winning team, Scutaro would have been lauded as a brilliant addition by… Read more »

Colorado Thistle
Colorado Thistle
8 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

I think the problem was the Rockies management didn’t see it as a rebuilding year. They were in the same denial I was in (“hey, we’re not that far off”), so they made questionable moves — Scutaro and Cuddyer — as if those little pieces were all that was needed to make it to the playoffs. In hindsight of the year, almost every choice they made at the outset was terrible: along with the two above, Moyer, and every other… Read more »

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
8 years ago

There has been more than one interview that confirms exactly what you are saying. This was not considered a rebuilding season.

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
8 years ago

I disagree completely. If you look at the interviews about the Cuddyer pick up for example its all about “he’s going to help transition the young team (particularly Tulo) into ‘leaders'”. Nothing, NOTHING was ever said that “Cuddyer is a move to put us into contention for the division” out of Rockies management. Same with Moyer for sure. I’m not positive what was said about Guthrie and Scutaro, but I’d lean to both of them also being picked up as… Read more »

DrRockies
Editor
DrRockies
8 years ago

Congrats to Marco! I understand the thinking behind not signing Marco or even Ellis the previous year since they were both in their last year of their contract but both continue to be productive veterans for their team. Rutledge eases the loss but at some point, wouldn’t it be nice if the front office really looked at their logic…oh wait I digress.

Good for Scutero!

Go Rox

rockymountainhigh
Admin
rockymountainhigh
8 years ago

I think Giambi is going to get the manager job. Jim Tracy can be his advisor like LaRussa was for Mike Matheny. I read in a DP blurb that Mike Gallego was a possibility. Don’t even ask him!!!! That’s the same Gallego that waved Stephen Drew on to 3B trying to stretch a double into a triple. It was zero outs and there was no chance he will get to third with the relay already on the way into the… Read more »

Colorado Thistle
Colorado Thistle
8 years ago

I read that “no excuses” quote from Wiley, and I thought, “wow, did he ask DOD why he doesn’t take responsibility?”

But in seriousness, I thought that is a great way to begin. We don’t teach our pitchers make excuses for pitching at altitude or on the road or to lefties with power or whatever. The newly created position may improve the organization with the right guy in it. I hope that right guy is Wiley.

Bill
Bill
8 years ago

Interesting interview with Tracy Ringolsby on KOA a little bit ago. He said that the new system can work if the Rockies hire a strong minded manager. According to him Geivett would not be making in game decisions nor (at least he seem to infer this) the lineups. Strong minded manager. Ozzie Guillen fits the bill. At least he has won a World Series this century as opposed to most other names mentioned. Tracy R. also said that he thought… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
8 years ago
Reply to  Bill

I follow Ringolsby on Twitter. My respect for the guy has gone down since I began following him. He’s a Rockies employee (essentially – by extension) and just sings the party line when talking Rox.

He’s pushed me over the edge with his University of Wyoming football comments/opinions through the course of this year. When he’s commenting about UW – it’s definitely as a fan looking through rosé-colored glasses.

Also, i’m over the cowboy hats and goofy ties!

Agbayani
Agbayani
8 years ago

Bill, I think you guys are missing the point when you say things like “who would take the Rockies manager job when the new guy will have Geivett looking over his shoulder from that clubhouse office.” The only reason Geivett was given that clubhouse office was to humiliate Tracy into resigning. Every other club would just fire the manager and be done. (Exhibit 1: Marlins dump Ozzie after 1 year, still owning him something like $8 million.) Not the Rockies.… Read more »

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
7 years ago

The sales push for fans to accept and actually be excited for Giambi is coming strong from the Rockies camps and puppet media guys. They want everyone to believe this isn’t a gimic and actually can work. And they haven’t even interviewed anyone from the outside. They are just preparing everyone for the inevitability of not getting someone like Sandberg or Alomar or Wallach or Ausmus or any other fairly recently retired player who has actually paid his dues and… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
7 years ago

Another named has surfaced – Ron Wotus.

You might not know this name, because he’s spent his entire career as player and coach in the Giants organization. Longtime minor league manager with a solid record, then Giants bench coach since 1999.

This intrigues me…..at least a little. If anyone knows the inner workings of the Giants, top to bottom, it would be this guy.

Mike Raysfan
Mike Raysfan
7 years ago

Prog may be right about Giambi but make no mistake about it, it is the Renck pushing the Giambi storyline. Then again he also thought the manager might be announced prior to the start of game 1 today. sdcarp since you mention SF, media there has gone out on a limb and mentioned Ausmus as the next Rockies manager. I’m not as optimistic as Ag when it comes to Geivett. One of the national talking head shows actually joked around… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
7 years ago

MLB Rumors is reporting Walt Weiss has interviewed.

File under “things that make you “hmmmmm” “

Bat Cat
Bat Cat
7 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Renck reports the same thing: Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck Rockies have talked w Walt Weiss about the manager’s job according to a major league source I’ve been thinking this for awhile but thought it would be too stupid to post, but maybe not so stupid. Why not bring back as coaches/managers the players from 1995 who won the Wild Card without a humidor and before management decided that it was too hard to play at altitude? Vinny is already with the… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
7 years ago
Reply to  Bat Cat

I’m wondering if Weiss isn’t interviewing for another position – say 3rd base Coach????

Also just saw on Twitter that Matt Williams will (or maybe has) interviewed. Good to see the Rox at least kicking a few more tires.

I know you’re joking about A-Rod – but I have thought (and continue to think) that Giambi might be very appealing to offensive Free Agents – at least for awhile.

Bat Cat
Bat Cat
7 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

More from Renck:

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck
Between Weiss, Giambi, Williams, I like Rox thinking. Weiss is smartest I have covered. Multiple players text clearly in favor of Weiss

Agbayani
Agbayani
7 years ago

I like the idea of Walt Weiss. We talk about pitching all the time, but a focus on sound defense is almost as important. Seems like a smart guy, and he’d bring at least some of that air of accomplishment as a major league player.

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
7 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Wonder if his strategies would reflect someone who was interested in playing small ball. I take a less conventional approach than I think most Rockies fans. I don’t think you need to play the power game here. It will happen naturally. What you need is a coach and players who are willing to look for base hits and gaps and go the other way. When Tulo is at his best and this includes his power, its when he’s just looking… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
7 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

Agree with this analysis. If you go back near the beginning of this thread where I attempt to quantify the affects of altitude, I stated that sound defense, and not walking batters is the key. Your statement that power will come naturally is absolutely true.

sdcarp
sdcarp
7 years ago

See that Jerry Manaul and Pete Mackanin have interviewed. I’ve never been a Manual fan, and don’t know much about Mackanin……..but I am encouraged that more people have interviewed and it appears (at least on the surface) like an organized, thorough process.

Colorado Thistle
Colorado Thistle
7 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

The level of dysfunction at an organizational level is breathtaking. It’s astonishing that the fact that the process doesn’t appear to be run by the Keystone Kops makes us think they’re doing something right.

I hope (to use a baseball phrase) they get out of their own way and make a good choice in spite of themselves.

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