Waiting To Be Swept Away vs. Astros 06-18-2015

Brooks Brown back on the DL and Christian Bergman back with the big club.  Nothing new to report except to say that the Rockies still haven’t figured out how to dominate at Coors Field under Walt Weiss.

RWO picRWO pic

[sac_happens]

0 0 vote
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of
guest
42 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago

It’s funny, I remember looking at Preston Tucker a couple of College World Series ago and thinking he’d be a capable Todd Helton replacement. Here we are, he’s in LF today, and Ben Paulsen – who will probably be a capable Justin Morneau replacement – is in.

Morneau says he’s rehabbing and aiming for a comeback this season. I wish the guy all the best whatever the outcome. Concussions suck.

Roxnsox
Roxnsox
5 years ago

First time watching in a few days. What was that illusion in late May or so?

The Rockies’ management won’t do a damn thing just because they get swept by the Astros and even if by the Brewers, and you know it.

Roxnsox
Roxnsox
5 years ago

I seriously doubt that even empty-ish stands would shake those idiot owners out of their baseball dream-state

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago

Oh boy RMH – Kyle Schwarber is at it again!

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago

I’m about to severely date myself – In the 70’s and early 80’s a guy named Ted Stepien owned the Cleveland Cavaliers. He’s was universally recognized as the worst NBA owner at the time….and some still consider him the all-time worst NBA owner. He was famous for making all sorts of dumb ass moves – including routinely trading away Cav’s 1st round picks – one of which was (or could have been) James Worthy. Anyway – there was ultimately a… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago

Some good news:

Nikorak and Nevin sign. Nikorak at 300K over slot. So 400K of Rodger’s slot savings remain. I’m become even more optimistic that we can sign the southern California kid committed to UCLA. He will be the toughest to sign.

RocketMan
RocketMan
5 years ago

So another late inning multiple run HR given up by the relief corps. Maybe it’s the team names–Astros hit it skyward, Rockies hit it into the dirt.

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago

Well, I said it before the 4 game set started: getting swept by these Astros could be the most productive thing to happen to us. There’s your blueprint for turning things around. It takes guts, but I’m guessing casual “what a beautiful ballpark” fans don’t care if the Rockies field a 62 win team as opposed to a 72 win team. And I’m guessing the rest of us – those who still bother to discuss the irrelevant Rockies – are… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

I loved Franklin. I remember one Spring just before Opening Day (keep in mind the Indians also sucked at that time……but at least there was light at the end of that tunnel) Franklin played the John Fogerty song “Centerfield” as a lead-in. I’m thinking the song had just been released. He decided he liked it so much he would just play it over-and-over for his whole show – probably 4 hours. So he did! I didn’t realize Franklin ended up… Read more »

sdcarp
Admin
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

I’ve pointed this out numerous times before – I think the 3 years of hell would actually be quite enjoyable to the hardcore fan (like most RWOers). Building a Farm juggernaut and watching it mature could be fun.

RocketMan
RocketMan
5 years ago

Without an ownership change of some sort, I don’t see the kinds of changes needed ever happening. I think winning is a personality trait as much as anything. Bowlen had it which is how the Broncos got themselves respectable. I think McMorris and Kelly McGregor had that, butI don’t think the Monforts of this era have it (at least any longer). I don’t see that the Kronkes have it either. Probably something to having so much money for so long… Read more »

Bill
Bill
5 years ago

I’ve been so busy all week that I haven’t watched more than a few innings here and there. Now it’s 1:30 in the morning and I can’t sleep. We’ve already had 3+ years of hell, so what’s 3 more. Bettis, Hale and Rusin each had two or three good games and they promote them to saviors and then they stink up the joint. And the Rockies continue to do nothing. The young guys have all regressed over the past few… Read more »

Julian
Julian
5 years ago

In today’s Denver Post Kiszla is calling for the Rockies to trade CarGo now that he is hitting better. I agree. Let’s trade him now before he gets injured again, unload his salary, and hopefully get one or two starting pitching prospects for him. And then let’s find other teams with holes in their rosters, and see if one of our players can patch that hole and get something in return for our player because of the other team’s need.… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Think bigger. Much bigger. You’re proposing trades that turn a 60 win team into a 62 win team.

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Hear ya. I just scoped down mlbtraderumors.com and there’s not a single, credible discussion underway yet for ANY Rox player. There could be several reasons for that. A big one is there are some other big sellers out there right now. Jayson Stark had CarGo on his recent Top 10 targets list. His take is Tulo isn’t moving – too much ask for too much risk. He’s in the same general boat as Kiszla, if CarGo has a hot month… Read more »

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago

Yep, carp, but Kiz and Julian give us a starting point. You won’t get any elite prospect for Cargo, but you certainly can get a pretty decent prospect or some combination of decent prospects. At this point it’s more of a salary dump. Cargo is working on his second consecutive season of about 85 RC+ — that’s barely acceptable for a catcher, much less a leftfielder. Now, I don’t think that’s the real guy. Diminished skills or not (and I… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Agree with you on 2 points: CarGo wouldn’t amount to much more than a salary dump and maybe two mid-tier prospects, and it’s time for the Rox to do *something*. It would decimate an already mediocre lineup. I’m having a hard time getting a read on Kyle Parker, but he’s likely not the long term answer. There may be a rotating OF door until someone shows up. (Stubbs: no.) But, I’m afraid that’s what we’re going to get, anyway, when… Read more »

Julian
Julian
5 years ago

I think that our pitchers would revolt if we put Wilin back behind the dish. I think MLB is well enough aware that Wilin can catch in a pinch, just poorly. I would have Wilin start at 1B every time that the other time has a lefty starter, so that he can pad his offensive statistics and show that he can play 1B. I think that there must be a number of AL teams that would want Wilin as a… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Chatwood has thrown bullpen sessions, but they are keeping him off the throttle after the second TJ. Next year.

Freeland had the shoulder fatigue issues, but then went through a procedure to clear six pieces of scar tissue in the elbow. He’s on the Grand Junction roster but not cleared to throw off a mound yet.

More on Freeland:
http://www.gjsentinel.com/sports/articles/on-the-rehab-trail

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago

“I think that our pitchers would revolt if we put Wilin back behind the dish.”

Oh no! It’s the Great Hale-Bergman Mutiny of 2015! We can’t afford to lose the confidence of these stellar performers! They might … have to sign with an independent minor league team, like that one Jose Canseco played for! What would we do, find another not-dead Justin Miller to fill in? Please forget that I ever said that.

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago

Donny Dinger’s quote: “The guys we could sell – Arenado and LeMahieu – we can’t afford to, they are irreplaceable ($/WAR) near term.” Big picture. Think out of the box. Near term means nothing to the Rockies. We’re going to suck near term – and mid-term. If we do everything exactly correct we can be respectable in 2018 and content in 2019. I’ll go so far as to say that not only are NoDo and DJ our best chips (meaning… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Nope. I agree on the near-term suck with or without part, but we’re gonna disagree on the Arenado or DJ trade this year. It’s not purple KoolAid, it’s business. I can’t deliver any $/WAR anywhere near what those guys do, either with a possible replacement at their position from the system, or with a return from a trade at another position, this year or next. You are right that doesn’t matter, we don’t succeed with them short term. But your… Read more »

Gary
Gary
5 years ago
Reply to  DonnyDinger

Agree.Especially if we are going to get high pick anyway due to current disaster.

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago

Let’s take a concrete example instead of just talking “big picture”. Matt Holliday. Dealt in 5th season, age 28. World Series experience. 3 year All Star. OPS .973, 1.012, .947 prior 3 years. 137 RBIs in 2007. Return: CarGo, Huston Street, Greg Smith. Good position player. A closer we dealt after 3 worsening years (who then got a lot better out of Coors). A SP bust who was allegedly MLB ready and had 1 terrible season, never heard from again.… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  DonnyDinger

Okie Dokie – concrete example – Matt Holliday. Matt Holliday was in the final 15 months of his contract when he was dealt to the A’s. Just over a year away from becoming a free agent. Arguably the best deal DOD ever made because the Rockies would have lost him for nothing in 2009 (they weren’t paying that type of contract). He would ultimately sign a 7 year, 120 million contract with the Cards in 09 (after the Cards had… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

Huston Street was not an All-Star with the Rox, let’s not revise history. He went to SD and made the All-Star team. And I agree, the Rox were over a barrel, and the Holliday deal could have been a lot worse – or nothing to FA. I will grant that Arenado is younger in season 3 than Holliday was in his corresponding season, and theoretically at least has a couple more years of peak production. But what is that production?… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago

The other example would be Dexter Fowler. Dealt in season 5, after falling out with O’Dowd, for Brandon Barnes and Jordan Lyles. Classifying Lyles as “injury prone” isn’t fair; breaking a finger on a freak tag play at the plate, and a turf toe, aren’t arm injuries. The guy can still be a good pitcher, maybe. Barnes has his fans and detractors, he’s a good player but not as high impact as Fowler is for Cubs right now. That’s about… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago
Reply to  DonnyDinger

You don’t seriously believe all that NoDo returns at a trade at this moment is the equivalent to Lyles and Barnes???????

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

An MLB-ready mid-rotation starter and an MLB 4th outfielder? He might get an MLB-ready SP and a AA-level prospect arm, and a minor league position player tossed in. Do you seriously think he gets anything more? Better hitter than David Freese, yep, dealt with a pitcher for a 4th outfielder and a high OF prospect. Josh Donaldson was traded for Brett Lawrie, Kendall Graverman (MLB mid-rotation starter with 1.4 WHIP), Sean Nolin (AAA reliever) and two A-level types Billy asked… Read more »

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago
Reply to  DonnyDinger

Donaldson if a full 5 years older than Arenado. These things matter … every GM knows that peak years are basically 26-29.

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago
Reply to  DonnyDinger

Correction: I’m behind the times. More recent post-PED era data suggests hitter begin to decline at age 26, with peak years shifted to earlier ages. Of course, Donaldson is already a bit of an exception as a late bloomer. But still, getting a cost-controlled hitter for his Age 25-28 seasons is a pretty valuable thing, hence my thinking on Arenado’s trade value.

Agbayani
Agbayani
5 years ago

Holliday is a good and bad comparison. Yes, he was a more established/consistent middle of the lineup hitter than Arenado is today. But no, Arenado is under team control for 4 more seasons (first year of arb eligibility is next year). And Arenado plays a far more difficult defensive position, and he does so at legitimate gold glove level, whereas Holliday was at best an average leftfielder only. Weird thing though: third basemen are performing extremely well as a class… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  Agbayani

Maybe Arenado sets a precedent, but I’m not seeing a benchmark in recent 3B deals – and GMs know all about that. We already mentioned Donaldson and Freese. Chase Headley went in season 5 (age 30) for Yangervis Solarte and an A-level pitcher we’ll never hear of. Again, salary motivated. Will Middlebrooks was a spare part dealt for a backup catcher (who was good enough to start in Boston). If the premise of a deal is a MLB-ready mid-rotation starter… Read more »

ProgMatinee
ProgMatinee
5 years ago

Arenado is worth more here than anywhere else. Fans and Rockies management know the entertainment value he brings…unlike Holiday who everyone knew because of the MVP race and WS appearance. My fear is you put Arenado on the market and GMs (unjustly) call him a non-star because he can’t smell a whiff in the All-Star vote and the make a bunch of low ball offers with the claim that he doesn’t draw fans. If the Rockies trade Tulo and Cargo… Read more »

DonnyDinger
Admin
DonnyDinger
5 years ago
Reply to  ProgMatinee

Yeah, we haven’t even discussed the “face of the franchise” aspect until this comment. He does get on SportsCenter and keep TV ratings from cratering, I’m not sure of the actual effect on physical attendance (which is down 2700 per game or about 8% so far this year). In a Rockies context, he’s the All Star by default with one mandatory representative.

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago

Quote: “What I’m not interested in is a crap shoot – Arenado now for 2 arms who might be 2 or 3 years away. I need a 2015 arm, no guessing.” Why? We suck in 2015. We suck in 2016. We suck in 2017. We need the best available talent with an eye to 2019-2022. So I would take an AA all-star shortstop and an A all-star shortstop, etc. Even though we just drafted Brendan Rodgers. Because I have a… Read more »

Bob K.
Bob K.
5 years ago
Reply to  sdcarp

The big problem is that as long as the Monforts own the Rockies, they will continue to suck year after year after year. They have no concept of what kind of people to put in charge and as long as that remains the case the status quo will continue in effect.

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago

I find myself criticizing the Rox a lot – so it’s important to give credit when credit is due. I’m very impressed that they’re getting all the draft picks signed quickly. I loved the draft philosophy – offense early then lots of pitching volume. I also thought the focus on high school talent was the correct decision for a team in the Rox position (a long way from contending). But the picks were so good (on paper) that I thought… Read more »

sdcarp
sdcarp
5 years ago

I continue to maintain the Yankees will be a player for Tulo. Here’s a blurb I read earlier today on Aaron Judge (should be one of the Rox targets): “Yankees prospect OF Aaron Judge went 2-for-3 with a home run, double and four RBI on Thursday for Double-A Trenton. The big man now has 11 home runs and 15 doubles to go along with a .280/.349/.506 batting line in 60 games for Trenton this season. Judge has been mashing of… Read more »

42
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x